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04-03-2007, 2:17 AM aquasaur Joined on 02-17-2007 Posts 300 Clones? I've been wondering. 1) Despite what they say about seamonkeys living longer than normal brine shrimp, they in fact die pretty easily and fast. No matter how careful you are and how many times you try, tanks just die. 2) The second generation nauplii seem weaker than the first batch. They also seem to grow slower and have a lesser chance of survival than the first batch. I think what we've bought is a gimmick, a sales toy that wasn't meant to last. (How can it last if the company is to make money?). If by chance, they do last 2 years of more, it's pure luck.  Furthermore, it's possible they created clones of the seamonkeys, which would explain why the seamonkeys are weak and unstable, and why the second generation nauplii are weaker.  If they were clones of each other, they would be genetically identical and more vulnerable to small disturbances in their environment as well as diseases. The offspring would be copies of the copies which would make them even more vulnerable. That is why the majority of lifeforms on earth are sexual, rather than asexual (reproduction without sex). So bottomline is that, whatever we do, nothing can prevent the tanks from dying because the seamonkeys are not meant to last.    Report

04-03-2007, 8:13 AM SeaMonkeyMan Joined on 03-15-2006 Texas Posts 456 Re: Clones? You are on the same track that I am. I am thinking that while the first batch may indeed be "Sea Monkeys" the second generation are merely brine shrimp or something of the like. I've had this theory going and I'm also looking into the fact that it could just simply be the formula that is making them last longer. I have come extremely close (and am still experimenting) with getting the formula to yield the same results. I've been able to get a brine shrimp tank to last as long as a Sea Monkey tank and have them grow the same size, but it's very hard to do because of the components of the forumla. I've also noticed that even in the brine shrimp tank that has almost the same formula, the offspring would be weaker. This makes me want to experiment with the formula more because I think it may be a crucial factor. By experimentation, we may figure it out. We already know that it's a gimmick due to the whole "Instant Life" phenomena, so now I'm looking into figuring out what this whole NYOS thing is about. What I want to do next is extract the eggs from the packet and use them in my own formula and see how things go. The thought of clones sounds scary lol, but it could be true.    Report

04-05-2007, 1:19 AM aquasaur Joined on 02-17-2007 Posts 300 Re: Clones? You're thinking that the seamonkeys "degenerate" back to their Salina forms :) But if Nyos has been genetically altered, it's pretty much fixed unless the alteration is unstable (thereby causing regression back to their original state in the second generation). If the secret lies in the food that somehow makes Salina into Nyos, it still doesn't explain why the offspring are weaker. Salina, like Nyos, has been cultivated to live only a short while, since they are used as aquarium food. The possibility that both Salina and Nyos have been cloned is not too far-fetched. Clones will make these shrimp commercially perfect every time. And they're not meant to reproduce and last because they're going to be aquarium food anyway. Considering that larger animals like sheep and monkeys have been cloned, it's no surprise that shrimp can be cloned too. Unfortunately, as can be seen from the animal clone failures, they do not live beyond a certain time (just like brine shrimp). In nature, clones from asexual reproduction are more vulnerable to external factors compared to offspring from sexual reproduction.  This is because clones are genetically identical and a single thing can wipe them out, whereas offspring that are genetically different have better chances of surviving it. It would explain the weakness of the second generation in brine shrimp (as well as the overall vulnerability in the first batch). According to a site, the 'instant life eggs' package, contains "Epsom salts, borax and soda, in addition to eggs, yeast and a blue dye. The blue dye is used to enhance the 'instant life' experience by making the freshly hatched animals more visible. The Sea-Monkeys seen during the second day after adding the 'eggs package' are derived from the eggs added with the 'purifier' package. The food package is a mixture of Spirulina and dried yeast. The 'boost' packages mainly contain salts, which induce sexual activity in artemia." It would seem that there's nothing special in the packages, although the food might make Salina bigger and last longer due to the better nutrition. It would be interesting to see the results of your experiment with the eggs from the packet and your own formula :)    Report

05-13-2007, 5:24 PM Phoenix Joined on 05-13-2007 Leeds - United Kingdom Posts 20 Re: Clones? Sadly Sea Monkeys are only "Half Breeds" Somthing created to die.... As bad as it is thats all they are to toy companys....    Report

05-13-2007, 10:34 PM aquasaur Joined on 02-17-2007 Posts 300 Re: Clones? Yes, it is sad. But that is how it is with companies. It is also a supply and demand thing. As long as there're buyers, it will ensure the business continues.    Report

05-15-2007, 5:35 AM Phoenix Joined on 05-13-2007 Leeds - United Kingdom Posts 20 Re: Clones? Dumb idea but! If you have 2+ tanks going why not breed a male from one to a female from the other? Wouldn't that = stronger genes? or atleast give them a chance to go further in the gens?    Report

05-15-2007, 6:04 PM cowgirl5456 Joined on 04-16-2007 Posts 100 Re: Clones? I thought about that........ But if the whole point REALLY was to have them die, then why would they have a 2 year guaruntee?    Report

05-16-2007, 9:41 AM Phoenix Joined on 05-13-2007 Leeds - United Kingdom Posts 20 Re: Clones? Buy more food Buy more tanks Buy more stuff    Report

05-17-2007, 11:31 PM aquasaur Joined on 02-17-2007 Posts 300 Re: Clones?  Phoenix wrote: Dumb idea but! If you have 2+ tanks going why not breed a male from one to a female from the other? Wouldn't that = stronger genes? or atleast give them a chance to go further in the gens? It might work if the eggs had natural diversity. If the eggs in all the sets have been engineered to be commercially perfect, it wouldn't make a difference what you do.    Report

05-17-2007, 11:33 PM aquasaur Joined on 02-17-2007 Posts 300 Re: Clones?  cowgirl5456 wrote: I thought about that........ But if the whole point REALLY was to have them die, then why would they have a 2 year guaruntee? The 2 year guarantee depends on many conditions of the seamonkeys' environment. The generations are supposed to last 2 years, but very often, or almost always, the seamonkeys die within a few months. Therefore, the 2 year guarantee is a sales gimmick.    Report

05-19-2007, 7:02 AM Yakkers Joined on 12-29-2006 Posts 160 Re: Clones? Does anyoe know if BRine Shrimp may be clones? I bought a vial of them and I'm hoping they've been less genetically tampered with.    Report

06-22-2007, 7:54 PM Niko_The_ Sea Monkey Joined on 06-17-2007 Seattle WA Posts 27 Re: Clones? Wow, this is a interesting topic that I have stumbled across. With all that is said, what would you say is the average "Generation" life span, given that all directions are followed from this message board from start to finish? Also I have found this product on ebay called "The Swarm", does anybody know any info about this product?    Report

06-24-2007, 4:01 AM aquasaur Joined on 02-17-2007 Posts 300 Re: Clones?  Yakkers wrote: Does anyoe know if BRine Shrimp may be clones? I bought a vial of them and I'm hoping they've been less genetically tampered with. If you bought them, then they are likely to be clones, made commercially perfect for their purpose, which is to be aquarium food. From what I read about people who had brine shrimp and tried to keep them, brine shrimp do not last as long as Seamonkeys, meaning they have an even shorter lifespan than Seamonkeys which have been altered to last longer and grow bigger.    Report

06-24-2007, 4:09 AM aquasaur Joined on 02-17-2007 Posts 300 Re: Clones?  Niko_The_ Sea Monkey wrote: Wow, this is a interesting topic that I have stumbled across. With all that is said, what would you say is the average "Generation" life span, given that all directions are followed from this message board from start to finish? Also I have found this product on ebay called "The Swarm", does anybody know any info about this product? Have never heard of The Swarm. Sounds like...ants? Bees? The average generation lifespan...even if you followed the instructions precisely, would be about 2 months or less. You can see from the posts in this site that Seamonkeys have a very high death rate. I found that the first batch that hatched from the packets were stronger than the next generation which grew very very slowly and died even more easily than the first batch. After the 2nd generation is produced, the first batch dies off and I think it would be lucky to get a 3rd generation from the first batch. The first batch and the next generation can end within 2 months and the tank becomes empty.    Report

06-24-2007, 9:02 AM Niko_The_ Sea Monkey Joined on 06-17-2007 Seattle WA Posts 27 Re: Clones? The Swarm is a SM knock off,but it claims that it will hatch more eggs then the SM brand. Once the 2nd generation dies and the tanks becomes empty, What would you recommend ? Let the tank evaporate then revive the eggs or Just start fresh with a new set of packets? On other post I have heard others talk about being able to save the orignal eggs, but what would be the point if that generation will be weaker? here is the link for the Swarm http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-SWARM-create-large-schools-of-sea-pets-Sea-Monkeys_W0QQitemZ130069757972QQihZ003QQcategoryZ31744QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem    Report

06-25-2007, 6:23 AM aquasaur Joined on 02-17-2007 Posts 300 Re: Clones? Yeah, I had a look at your link. And did a little checking on Dr Jordan's Swarm kit. There is very little information on The Swarm compared to Transcience's Seamonkeys. And the Swarm kit has a very homemade look to it, not professional or attractive like the Seamonkey kits that we are used to seeing. But overall, the Swarm kit has the same type of stuff except that they are called different names. For instance, the water purifier is called Conditioner. And the tanks look the same as the Seamonkey kits. Yeah, not sure if the claim is true-- that there are more "sea pets" from Swarm. If the seamonkeys 2nd generation dies after they have mated and laid, hopefully, they left some eggs around in the tank. You would think that they would hatch the instant they are laid, but that is not so. Hatching is not easy if the conditions are not right and they can stay unhatched for as long as they like until the conditions are right. You could let the water evaporate and then add water to revive the eggs. Evaporation and then "rainfall" would be like the natural thing. Hopefully, they will hatch. But if the seamonkeys died before they could reproduce, then there would be no 2nd generation to revive, unless there are left over eggs from the first batch that lay dormant in the tank. So, you could evaporate the tank and see if any hatches. Some people would rather just start with a new batch and they go out to buy another kit. The first batch/generation that you first added into the tank at the start is the original and they would be stronger than the 2nd generation. If you manage to revive any leftover eggs from the original packet, then they would be strong compared to the next generation that comes from that.    Report

06-29-2007, 3:45 AM chelletay Joined on 06-27-2007 Illinois Posts 8 Re: Clones?  Phoenix wrote: Dumb idea but! If you have 2+ tanks going why not breed a male from one to a female from the other? Wouldn't that = stronger genes? or atleast give them a chance to go further in the gens? *blank stare*  I'm kind of a newbie, but I have to ask... how do you tell the difference between the male and female?    Report

01-04-2008, 1:15 PM Anonymous Re: Clones? <BLOCKQUOTE><table width="85%"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/community/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>aquasaur wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4">I've been wondering. <br><br>1) Despite what they say about seamonkeys living longer than normal brine shrimp, they in fact die pretty easily and fast. No matter how careful you are and how many times you try, tanks just die. <br><br>2) The second generation nauplii seem weaker than the first batch. They also seem to grow slower and have a lesser chance of survival than the first batch. <br><br>I think what we've bought is a gimmick, a sales toy that wasn't meant to last. (How can it last if the company is to make money?). If by chance, they do last 2 years of more, it's pure luck.  <br><br>Furthermore, it's possible they created clones of the seamonkeys, which would explain why the seamonkeys are weak and unstable, and why the second generation nauplii are weaker.  <br><br>If they were clones of each other, they would be genetically identical and more vulnerable to small disturbances in their environment as well as diseases. The offspring would be copies of the copies which would make them even more vulnerable. That is why the majority of lifeforms on earth are sexual, rather than asexual (reproduction without sex). <br><br>So bottomline is that, whatever we do, nothing can prevent the tanks from dying because the seamonkeys are not meant to last. <br></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

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